Resilience through Rainbows | Up for Discussion with Abbie Jane

As we approach World Mental Health Day this week, it's a perfect time to highlight the importance of visibility and support for LGBTQ+ youth. In particular, overcoming obstacles and maintaining positivity in the face of challenges. In our next episode of Up for Discussion, we are thrilled to welcome Abbie, the inspiring 15-year-old founder of the Rainbow Shoelace Project. Abbie started this initiative to combat bullying and promote acceptance among young people.

With over 280,000 packs of rainbow beads distributed globally, her project has become a symbol of pride and community for LGBTQ+ youth. Join us as Abbie shares her personal journey, the challenges she faced in a small town, and how she turned her experiences into a powerful movement.

We’ll discuss:

• The significance of representation and visibility in schools
• The impact of bullying on mental health
• Abbie’s vision for a more inclusive future

This episode is not just about advocacy; it's about creating safe spaces where everyone can feel accepted and loved. Tune in to learn how we can all contribute to a brighter future for LGBTQ+ youth!

 

 

[Scot Jones] (0:16 - 0:27) 

Well, thank you, Abbie, for joining me. My name is Scot Jones from Community Business, and I'll be your podcast host for this evening. And just a quick introduction, Abbie, please tell us about yourself. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (0:27 - 0:41) 

Of course, first of all, I'm so grateful to be talking with you today. So I'm Abbie, I'm the founder of the Rainbow Shoelace Project. I'm from regional New South Wales, and I'm 15 years old. 

  

[Scot Jones] (0:42 - 0:45) 

Awesome. I saw on LinkedIn that you recently turned 15, right? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (0:45 - 0:50) 

I did. Yes, on the 4th of September. So very fresh. 

  

It feels weird saying it. 

  

[Scot Jones] (0:52 - 1:32) 

Well, it's really impressive. And I don't, you know, mean to you, but I really think it's impressive that you started this program or your project in 2022. And you're only 15. 

  

So kudos to you. That's amazing. And it's funny, I've been following you on LinkedIn. 

  

I'm a little bit of a having a fangirl moment. But yeah, I love what you do. And I think it's so amazing. 

  

And I love the visibility that you're bringing to the community. And, you know, it's amazing that in what, two years or a little over two years, you've sent out 280,000 packs of beads, which is incredible. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (1:32 - 1:39) 

Such a crazy number. It still feels so weird hearing someone say that back to me. It's just grown so much in such a short time. 

  

[Scot Jones] (1:40 - 1:46) 

Yeah, it's amazing. I have a question I hadn't prepared you for. But do you remember who you gave your first pack of beads to? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (1:47 - 2:32) 

Oh, my goodness. That is such a good question. Because we started it off, you know, I had the idea. 

  

And we went to a local craft shop and just bought this pack of 50 different assorted beads. And I think I actually, because I took the idea to my friend Max, who is from Broken Hill, where I am originally from. I live in Port Macquarie now, but we'll get to that later. 

  

So I, Max is, you know, one of the other queer kids in Broken Hill. And I said, Hey, what do you think of this? Like, maybe could you like we put together some packs and like you give them to your friends and stuff. 

  

So I think Max was the first person I gave a pack of beads to. 

  

[Scot Jones] (2:34 - 2:39) 

Awesome. I love it. You know, starting out small and seeing it grow. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (2:39 - 2:52) 

Just with like local queer kids that needed that visibility too. And to think it's like gone global now. Like there are people in different countries that support it. 

  

It's such a crazy feeling. 

  

[Scot Jones] (2:52 - 2:57) 

Yeah, that's awesome. And I definitely want to get some so we can start spreading it around in Hong Kong. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (2:57 - 3:00) 

Yes. Oh, my gosh. That adds another place. 

  

[Scot Jones] (3:05 - 3:10) 

Tell me how you got started. I mean, you told me about your friend Max, but what made you start? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (3:12 - 5:05) 

So obviously, I started this project when I was 12. And as I said, I'm 15 now. So I've grown a lot as a person during that time. 

  

But I had these little plastic rainbow beads on my shoelaces in about year six of primary school. That was when I was kind of discovering who I was and, you know, exploring my sexuality. And, you know, I think I'd always known that I'd liked girls and boys, and it was very confusing. 

  

And it was just a small way to show who I was. And then high school, it's a very daunting time for anyone, especially young queer kids that live in regional towns. It can feel really lonely and scary. 

  

And when I got to high school, the amount of just generalised homophobia I heard, the amount of slurs I heard being thrown around, it made me terrified. And I went home that day, and I said, Mum, I have to take these off my shoelaces. I don't want to cause a target on my back. 

  

I don't want people to look down and think, oh, she's gay. Let's bully her for that. And I thought, hang on a second. 

  

Why should I have to take off this small bit of pride that I have just because of closed minded people? And I thought about all the other kids, not just in my school, but in Australia and the world that still felt alienated and isolated just because of who they are. And then I thought of the idea that you normally see rainbows when you're looking up in the sky. 

  

And when you're experiencing homophobia, transphobia, and bullying, you tend to look down and hide yourself from the world. And just by looking down and seeing someone with these rainbow beads on their shoelaces, it can create a sense of community and a sense of safety and make you know that you're loved no matter who you are. Because sometimes it can be hard to find those safe places. 

  

[Scot Jones] (5:06 - 5:53) 

Absolutely. That's beautiful and amazing. I have a couple of things to say about that. 

  

My daughter is in grade six, so I can really resonate with how mean kids can be. And just navigating your identity at that age is really hard for anybody. But it's hard for anybody exploring their sexuality and gender identity and expression, right? 

  

And the other thing is I grew up in a small town. And obviously, it was quite a while ago. But I grew up in a small New England town. 

  

And my experience in high school was miserable. I was bullied badly. So I can totally relate to that. 

  

And it really bums me out that we're still having this conversation in 2024, that it's still happening. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (5:53 - 7:12) 

And that's a really, really common misconception. So I've had a lot of adults, and even my mum, didn't know that homophobia still existed. When I told mum that I heard kids being homophobic, she was like, what? 

  

She was like, I didn't even know that kids were like that anymore. But obviously, it's different. Because you know, 30 years ago, kids could barely even come out. 

  

And there was, say, like one gay kid openly out, you know, in a whole grade, right? And now, there are a lot more kids coming out. But that's also meaning that there's a lot more people vocalising their hatred for it. 

  

And it's really sad. And I think it might be a peer pressure thing, it might be parental, you know, kids looking up to their parents who have those views. Or it could just be small minded people that don't understand it. 

  

So they immediately go to hating it. But it's really exhausting. And people thought like, as soon as same sex marriage was legalised in Australia, that all homophobia was abolished. 

  

And I would definitely say that I, in my experience, especially with this project, I've experienced a lot more homophobia from kids than I have adults. 

  

[Scot Jones] (7:12 - 7:47) 

Hmm. That's depressing, but really important. Yeah. 

  

And, you know, just coming from Hong Kong, and you know, the work I do is with, you know, companies that have offices all over Asia Pacific. And, you know, one of the generalisations we have is that Australia is so far ahead of any other market in Asia. So it's really important to know that this happens in Australia, you know, it's, you know, in my mind, Australia is like, totally progressive. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (7:47 - 8:19) 

And, you know, that's what everyone thinks. And, you know, and compared to some parts of the world, it is, and I'm very grateful to live in the world that I do. But I'm also not going to settle for the bare minimum. 

  

Like, we've come a long way. But we've still got so far to go. And it does give me hope. 

  

You know, looking back 30 years, I hope in another 30 years time that we can hopefully live in a world where it doesn't matter who you love, you can just be accepted for who you are. 

  

[Scot Jones] (8:19 - 8:35) 

Yeah, no, that is the goal, right? I hope that happens in my lifetime. You mentioned growing up in a small town. 

  

And I think your mum told me that you moved, right, to go to school? 

  

[Speaker 4] (8:36 - 8:36) 

Yes. 

  

[Scot Jones] (8:37 - 8:40) 

And is that because of the homophobia that you witnessed and experienced? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (8:41 - 13:09) 

Yeah. So, um, I started the Rainbow Shoelace Project as a kind of anti-bullying movement, because I felt really alone. But in towns like Broken Hill, no one speaks up about anything. 

  

And you just have to be what society deems is normal. Otherwise, you'll stick out like a sore thumb and people will hate you for it. And when I started to advocate for LGBTQI plus rights, and when I started the Rainbow Shoelace Project, it put such a big target on my back. 

  

And generalised homophobia became targeted homophobia. And it was relentless. It was every day. 

  

It was online. It was in person. Boys, girls, kids younger than me, kids older than me. 

  

And obviously, I was in year seven when I started this. So it happened from the start of year seven right up until the end of year eight, when in term four, I literally could not go to school. Like I never thought and I love learning. 

  

I love school. I love education. I love learning new things. 

  

But I hated the social aspect because I was so scared to walk down the halls of school. I'd be called slurs that some people wouldn't even expect that still get used, but they definitely do. People telling me that I was a waste of oxygen, that the world would be better off without me. 

  

And just completely saying the opposite of what I was trying to say, like saying that the world needs to stay hateful. And I'll give you, so for Idahobbit Day, 2023, so last year, and Idahobbit Day, for those who don't know, is the international day against homophobia, transphobia and biphobia. So I was like, my school is very plain, very grey, dull. 

  

And I was like, this is one day. So why don't we just put the pride flag up? So I got permission from my principal, and I alone raised the pride flag on the flagpole. 

  

And within seconds, 30 to 40 kids of all ages started to crowd around me, yelling slurs, you know, hateful things. I couldn't even, I couldn't even make out what half of them were saying. Because there was just so much yelling. 

  

And I just remembered feeling so closed in, and so afraid. And I just kind of had to run to the side. And I ran up to my deputy principal's office, and I was so distraught. 

  

I was like, this has just happened to me. Like, I don't know what to do. Please help me. 

  

Like, I feel so unsafe at school. And I don't know what to do. And yeah, it just, it progressed from that. 

  

And it just got worse. So we ended up saying, look, we need a change. We need a change of school. 

  

And when my mum told my grandfather, who I'm very close with, he's a very big supporter of the Rainbow Shoelace Project, when my mum told my grandfather that we were thinking of moving me away, my pop said, that's the best idea, because she wouldn't, I don't think she'd make it to year 12. Like, gay people aren't being murdered by other people as often as they were 30 years ago, but we're being murdered due to suicide rates, because people make other people feel so awful about themselves. And it's so sad. 

  

And I'm really glad that you did bring that up. Because a lot of people see my story from afar, and they don't see that side of it. And they think that it's just been success and rainbows and perfectness, when in reality, it's been such a journey. 

  

And I don't say that I'm grateful for the bullying, because I'm not and I wish it never happened to me. But I do know that it's made me the person I am today. And I think it's made me a stronger advocate, because I know what I'm talking about. 

  

And I know who I am. And I, I know what it's like to feel that way. So I think it enables me to tell a stronger story. 

  

And that's why I think it's so important to share those dark, grim details, because it helps people relate more. 

  

[Scot Jones] (13:11 - 13:41) 

Absolutely. And yeah, I think it's so brave of you to, you know, like you said, you could just close down. And I mean, that's what I did. 

  

I just closed myself off. And I, you know, I just struggled to get through it. And, you know, I'm same, I'm not glad it happened. 

  

But it did make me who I am today. And I feel stronger as a result of it, but not fair for anybody to have to go through that. Can you tell me maybe about a challenge that you based in your, you know, in the journey? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (13:42 - 14:41) 

Yeah, of course. So I've obviously spoken a lot about the bullying, but on a more like professional, you know, project starting level, I think just trying to initially spread the message was really hard, because you start off a social media page, and you have zero followers. And it's really hard to grasp people's attention and, you know, spread the word. 

  

And then when we did get recognition from, you know, celebrities like Christian Hull, when he posted, we hadn't yet had our website set up. So we were doing orders through Instagram DMs, because it was that small. It was that small. 

  

People would tell us their address, all that. And we were sending it for free. And we were doing shipping for free at that time. 

  

It was completely self-funded. It was not, it was, it was not good on the bank account for us. But when Christian Hull posted about us, we got $700 overnight. 

  

[Scot Jones] (14:41 - 14:42) 

Wow. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (14:42 - 15:50) 

And that was so, I mean, it was amazing, but it was so stressful. We were like, oh my God, we cannot manage this through Instagram DMs. So we had to like quickly get a website set up, quickly do this. And I think another challenge is just the whole financial side of it. 

  

So I've got a single mum, who I'm very grateful for, and who is my biggest supporter. And she hates it when I give her shout outs, but it's so important that I do, because she's such a huge asset to this project, and it wouldn't be possible without her. Obviously, she made me, number one. 

  

Number two, she supported me to do this. She supported my crazy idea of starting a worldwide project. But I think because we don't have a corporate sponsor, and that's one of my goals, I really want to get more funding. 

  

Right now, we are kind of balanced with donations. People are very thoughtful with donations and businesses when they donate to us. It means so much, and it helps us out so much. 

  

Yeah. So I don't know, just the financials, and I guess the overall starting it up was a challenge, like a big challenge. 

  

[Scot Jones] (15:50 - 15:53) 

I bet. How old, 12? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (15:54 - 16:09) 

12, yeah. And also, it's not like my mum, her profession is not in business. We didn't know how to get an ABN or do all this stuff, so we had to get advice from other people, because we had no idea what we were doing. 

  

[Scot Jones] (16:11 - 16:20) 

That's so cool. Well, I really hope, through all of the exposure you get, that you get a corporate sponsor, and not just one, but many really deserve it. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (16:21 - 16:24) 

I really hope so, too. It would be a lot less stressful on my mum. 

  

[Scot Jones] (16:24 - 16:33) 

I'm sure. Switching topics a little bit, but I heard you wrote a book. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (16:34 - 18:40) 

Oh my gosh, yes. Oh my god, I love talking about this. Yes. 

  

So I co-authored a kids' picture book with Claire Thompson, who's an amazing children's book author, and we've been working on it for ages, and there was like a lot of, we didn't know whether we wanted to aim it at teenagers or young kids. We didn't know how detailed we wanted to make it. We were just very unsure, but we've settled on this beautiful story of finding rainbows, spreading kindness, and it's directed at very young kids, but it doesn't discuss topics of homophobia and things like that, but it tells people how to be kind, and shares the story of Abbie sending rainbow beads across the world, and the illustrations are so beautiful. 

  

I almost cried when I saw them for the first time, and it's just, there's something so crazy about seeing your story physically printed in a beautiful artwork of a book. It's so amazing, and I just can't wait to get it in libraries across the world and on the shelves, because I think it's just such an important thing, and I'm a big advocate for education on those topics. It doesn't have to be in-depth education, but just teaching your young kids that boys can marry boys, and girls can marry girls, and normalising that you can love whoever you want, and you can be whoever you want to be. 

  

I think that that is what's going to stop homophobia in the long run, is making it normal, and making it okay, and not making it a taboo subject. So that's why I'm so grateful that this book has been able to become a reality. If you told me when I first started this project that I would have a kid's book coming out, I would not have believed you. 

  

So it just shows how far an idea can go. 

  

[Scot Jones] (18:41 - 19:18) 

That's amazing, and I think the reason you've been so successful, obviously, I mean, because of yourself. You're brave, and you're articulate, and I think you have an amazing story, but also because it's so needed, and it's universal in its own way. Like you said, it's not necessarily teaching people in-depth about homophobia, and all the bad things in the world, but just visibility, and exposure, and representation, it's so important. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (19:18 - 19:20) 

Yes, I completely agree. 

  

[Scot Jones] (19:21 - 19:24) 

When is it going to be ready? Do you know? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (19:24 - 19:46) 

Oh, March next year. So we wanted to make it ready for Mardi Gras. So that's like a very seasonal, fun time of year for everyone. 

  

So yeah, that's when it'll be ready, but it is available for pre-order on our website, which is rainbowshoelaceproject.com.au. Awesome. 

  

[Scot Jones] (19:46 - 19:50) 

Well, I am going to reserve one. What's the title of your book? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (19:50 - 19:57) 

It's called Abbie's True Colours. Nice. It's very cute. 

  

It makes me so happy thinking about it. 

  

[Scot Jones] (19:58 - 20:07) 

That is awesome. And also, just to shout out, you received a Young Achiever Award recently, yes? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (20:08 - 21:17) 

Yes. So I'm actually going to Sydney on Wednesday. So very soon. 

  

They're the honour awards. So I'm a finalist in that Young Achiever category. And it's crazy. 

  

There are only four finalists that get picked. And I don't know, I think all these awards and things like that, that's when the imposter syndrome kind of comes into play. It's like, do I deserve this? 

  

Have I done enough? Maybe I need to do more to feel like I'm worthy of this. But ultimately, obviously, it's not about the awards, but I think just getting to attend those ceremonies. 

  

And obviously, at the honour awards, I'm so excited to go because I'm going to get to meet so many amazing queer people that are so powerful, that have done such amazing things. And it's just that networking and making connections. And those are the type of events where I meet people that inspire me to do more. 

  

So that's why I appreciate it so much. 

  

[Scot Jones] (21:17 - 21:38) 

That's amazing. You have an amazing attitude, and I'm sure it's going to make you very successful in life. I've really enjoyed speaking with you. 

  

I could talk to you all night. Do you have anything else you'd like to say or any last thoughts? 

  

[Abbie Jane] (21:39 - 23:02) 

I just want to share a story that I got from one of our supporters. It's just a message, and it's my favourite story to share with people about the Rainbow Shoelace Project. So I actually got this message when we kind of first started the project. 

  

I think it was after Christian Hull posted, and we had gained a bit of followers. But this doctor from regional South Australia messaged us and went, Hi, I just wanted to let you know, I just had a consultation with one of my clients, you know, he's 50 years old. And I have beads on my work shoes. 

  

And he looked down and he asked me what they were and what they meant. So I explained the story of the Rainbow Shoelace Project. And this 50-year-old man said to me that he had never come out to a soul in his life, but that he was gay, and that he had never told anyone that before. 

  

And people often ask me, why beads? They seem so pointless. They have no purpose. 

  

But it's not about the physical beads themselves, although they are very cute. It's about the conversation it starts. And it just creates that opportunity to share who you are with the world. 

  

And that is the most beautiful thing, is feeling like you can tell the world who you are. 

  

[Scot Jones] (23:03 - 23:22) 

Yeah, that's beautiful. And you know, as you travel, as I travel around the world, you know, some countries, some cities are just, you see the rainbow everywhere, you know, CK flag, the pride flag, and then others, you just don't. And in Hong Kong, we really don't. 

  

And so, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get some and I'm gonna get them on people's shoes. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (23:23 - 23:59) 

Yes. Oh, my gosh, it's so, so cool. Um, we've, yeah, they've gone global. 

  

And you know, what a really, you know, a fun fact about the Rainbow Shoelace Project. Next year, our beads will be going to Antarctica. And I'm just like, that is, that is the furthest they will ever go. 

  

Like, how many people go to Antarctica? But it's, it's just crazy. It's just crazy to think how, how big it's gone. 

  

But I appreciate your support so much. And you're going to help us out so much by distributing them, you know, across the world. 

  

[Scot Jones] (23:59 - 24:20) 

Well, we have an event coming up called Pink Dot. If you don't know about it, look it up. They have it in Singapore. 

  

And it's a huge event in Hong Kong. And it is actually this Sunday. So I can't get the beads for that. 

  

But I will. I will definitely get them and spread the word. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (24:21 - 24:22) 

Yeah, that'd be amazing. 

  

[Scot Jones] (24:22 - 24:30) 

Thank you so much for talking to me. I really enjoyed it. And I really look forward to your posts and keeping track of your progress. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (24:30 - 24:33) 

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was amazing. 

  

[Scot Jones] (24:33 - 24:34) 

Have a great night. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (24:35 - 24:35) 

You too. 

  

[Scot Jones] (24:36 - 24:36) 

Bye Abbie. 

  

[Abbie Jane] (24:37 - 24:37) 

Bye. 

  

[Scot Jones] (24:38 - 24:38) 

Bye.